A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. This global pandemic has made unprecedented impacts on the worlds economies and our way of life, Koziol said. There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. What are the chances of getting picked up. This doesnt exactly seem legally right. Additionally, because of rules that the Federal Aviation Administration has put into place over the last decade that make hiring civilian pilots difficult, many regional airlines have created rotary-wing transition programs that substantially ease the transition for Army helicopter pilots. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. This means that aviation formations get screwed doubly they have to support everyone's demands, while being vastly outnumbered. Army Pilots put up with less Army BS and get paid more. Given the pandemic's direct and indirect effects on the aviation industry, is that even going to a concern going forward. Because honestly put the lifestyle sucks nowadays. Welcome back, fellow aviators! Aviation continuation pay 2 . Often times these decisions being made do more harm than good, and cause a tremendous amount of work (just look at our administrative packet processes). Wonder if you can get out early if NOT making CW3 or must you hang around. Finally, the thing not being said about sending senior NCOs to flight school is the socialization at the company level piece. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. Extra 4 years would NOT make a difference. I was just curious if the numbers are stillsimilar. Guess what? I got out because I wanted to fly, but kept getting stuck in staff positions where I either couldn't fly, or had limited opportunities to fly. By policy, the Army must review the AvB program quarterly to determine the program's effectiveness. Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. In the end, it's the Army getting a good return on the investments.. The policy also applies to Army Reserve and National Guard components, but their obligated service will remain part-time, he said. , I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. These could range from 6 months to two years, depending on the type of aircraft hes flying. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? I don't want to mess with my retirement, but would love a chance to fly for my country. Check this post out on Reddit:https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. The Department of Defense released a report in July 2019 that laid out the challenges the military faces with pilot retention and included plans of action from each branch. Air defense branch offering $60,000 bonus for warrant officers, New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation, New Aviators to incur 10-year service obligation. im hopeful the army can fix this problem ASAP. (USASOC) Commissioned and warrant officers who enter flight training starting in October will incur a 10-year service obligation once they become rated Army aviator s, according to guidance. As a result, the US Army Aviation Center of Excellence initiated a survey to better inform future incentive and quality of life programs designed to increase retention.. 1 Sacknuts93 3 yr. ago Probably not. (Well assume a move to the Guard or Reserve after completing your initial 10-year UPT ADSC. That's the Army's ace in the hole. Fly them that way through the instrument phase, and then conduct a rotary wing transition. I know this is an old article but as a graduating senior this policy is stupid. The severity of the decline in recruiting will be unknown until the recruiting data comes in from the first affected class of cadets and warrant officer candidates. I greatly appreciate the responsiveness of this community and the depth of feedback y'all have provided, but I want to be sure that the consensus expressed herein is not just the culmination of a bunch of bad experiences but is actually a systemic issue. Additionally, Cadets awarded Aviation Branch cannot participate in the Post of Choice program due to the inability to project requirements beyond flight school. The Army has more career Enlisted soldiers willing to cross over for the opportunity in being an Officer, pilot and increasein pay for their families, with or without a degree. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. His answer was, Of course not. That will solve our retention problem!" The increased ADSO shows that senior leaders fundamentally do not understand the issues, and it will do nothing to address the attrition as the years go on. Display as a link instead, I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. Cadets, who have not experienced the Army for even one day as an officer, are now asked to commit up to eleven years for the opportunity to fly for six yearsif they are luckywhile spending the rest of that time on staff, in professional military education, or in broadening assignments. No one knows somehow, my S1 doesnt know either. Unlike pilot deployments that can be as short as a couple of months, engineer deployments are usually 6-12 months. Up to $15K per year payable to officers drawing Optometrist Regular Special Pay who have completed initial ADSO for education and training, and who execute a 12-month active duty service agreement. It never ends. I transitioned from infantry to aviation and have had off-and-on heartache with it ever since. Your appointment to W1 is a conditional appointment until you graduate flight school so you will revert to whatever enlisted rank you held prior to WOCS. Theres a two word solution to this, age waiver. There is no replacement theory for ARFORGEN they decided to just shelve it and go with "let's make everyone miserable all the time". I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. More than likely the Lts selected will be lower on the Order of Merit List. This may be because the Army has not undertaken the same in-depth approach to understanding this problem as other services. If you havent already read, Welcome back to Part 2 of our series about career progression for Air Force pilots, from the pilot perspective. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. What is the real answer? for a discussion of these options and their advantages.) By Believe it or not, more than a few fellow senior non rated Army officers are jealous when it comes to flight pay. I wouldnt put it past B Co to drop incorrect information and later say we didnt say that.. Press J to jump to the feed. During this time, Stan would at least need to obtain his Private Pilot Certificate. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. You can review the rules in AR 600-3 if memory serves. So Army. This! For more information, please see our You don't have to have a college degree to apply or be accepted into it, he said. No products in the cart. As a Guard or, There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. Reading your first paragraph and skimming the rest I couldn't agree more. Plus, you will also be earning full GI Bill benefits AT THE SAME TIME. I just want to stop leaving my family all the time! Aviation Bonus (AvB) Program. Just to end it and walk away.. victorious..? I feel that part of the problem is that the Army assessed too many senior NCOs into flight school, which helped get them into this box that they are in. One problem with pilots is that we don't age well (I'm not a military aviator, just a private pilot) so there would be an issue of reaching a physical condition expiration date at some point. But Army aviation is better than sitting behind a desk and possibly dying of boredom. Such changes may affect my status, Im a career guy so I dont mind but initially it can be daunting. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. Sometimes that's necessary, but there's got to be some balance. Can you imagine thesmile on more than a few faces of the last graduating class in Fy 2020 in September. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty UPT slot in hopes of possibly getting a Guard or Reserve slot 5 years from now. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. b. All in all, this track has the potential for less family stability than his Active Duty pilot counterparts. Hopefully it is dependent on start date and not graduation date. The USMA/ROTC graduating cadets will make the decision on the 12 year commitment in 2021. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. People tend to forget, aportion of street to seat WOFT applicants areprior service. Army, Coast Guard . There are some other prerequisites they have to meet. The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. NG will have 10 years. Army and Air Force use this pay. Hah right. I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the, Now that Im older and wiser, one of my many. That will solve our retention problem!" If retention suffers too much, the Army will face a pilot production shortfall that will add to the existing shortage. It turns out that even one year is a big difference. Moving to a random Air Force Base for less than 1 year while Awaiting Pilot Training (APT), Moving to a base for 6-10 months for initial aircraft qualification. But ifonline discussions are any indication, this ADSO will turn away a lot of prospective pilots. Other branches have had 10 year ADSOs for a long time. That is completely and totally gone. But at what cost? No additional time added with a BRADSO. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. The service obligation begins on the date an officer attains an aeronautical rating of Army aviator or is removed from attendance, whichever is earlier.. It will give you a recruiting advantage because a person out of high school or a year of college could position themselves for later on in life. You must understand, the Army has an ace in the hole when filling the Warrant Officer aviation pipeline. The institution of the new ADSO stands in testimony to a DOD organization entrenched in process and procedure at the expense of adjustment to any current reality. How long is Army Warrant Officer School? This used to be unheard of. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots retention in the future. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. TheGovernment Accountability Office reported, for example, that it can take two years and three to eleven million dollars to produce a mission-ready fighter pilot. Well see that the Active Duty option is still a good deal, that the overall difference isnt so great, and well see why youre better off pursuing either than trying to fulfill a non-pilot commissioning commitment before trying to pursue the Ultimate career path. In my first year and a half after flight school I flew over 500 hours. I wish thiswasa little more clear. Another anecdote, when I was deployed there was a desire to have experienced cockpits on higher risk/higher visibility missions usually two pilots with 1000+ total hours. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation, from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. Proponents of the new ADSO have suggested that the Army is catching up with the Air Force and the Navy by matching its pilot obligation with theirs. Instead of giving bonuses of several hundred thousand dollars to keep pilots like our Air Force brethren get, the Army decides the best course of action is to just make it mandatory 10 years like them but not receive the pay. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. Really sucks for all the street2seat guys coming in or anyone that has prior Aviation experience on the outside. Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. What if Stans 5-year ADSC runs out as the next SARS/Swine Flu/COVID-type pandemic puts hiring on hold? The ARMY should allow ATP for all prior service men willing and fit to fly. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. It further acts as a disincentive to those who would like to do the mission, but are unwilling to sacrifice a decade of their time in the event they don't like the lifestyle. Although busy, it left plenty of downtime for people to have actual lives. One can just see all those 2LTs cringing when the folks at the bottom of each class are forced to take Aviation during the branching ceremony. It was not a wild decision to take a small hit to accession to make sure you have mid careerists. However, increasing the service obligation of new pilots is the wrong course of action. People are tired. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. Prospective warrant officers can see that the Army is having trouble retaining pilots, and they can also see that increasing the service obligation by four years works against their best interests. Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. Not saying I would want the out but, contractually wouldnt there be something to be said for Breach of contract here? One Academy cadet I spoke with (lets call him Stan) has always wanted to be a military pilot. His deployment vulnerability continues for even a couple of years after his seasoning orders are over. Regarding the future Army Commissioned Lts in wishing to branch aviation, that will be an issue next year.

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